Hi Ken,

Excellent questions. I posted about spanking on my blog (check the “Parenting” category) and got flogged by a few people for my “Scripture supports using the rod” view.

In short, I believe that a 4-year-old will see the difference between hitting and spanking, especially if it is laid out to her that “if you do this, I will have to spank you.” Hitting is different - it can just come out of nowhere. Spanking is premeditated and therefore a deterrent. AND IT IS WORKING.

I don’t like to spank my son. I try to phrase it to him as “I’m sorry buddy, I don’t want to do this, but remember when I said that if you said no to me like that I’d have to spank you? Well you just did that so now I have to spank you.”

In a sense, maybe I’m shirking the responsibility by acting like I have no choice, I just have to do it. But this helps me to distance my emotions from the punishment. For I do believe that spanking done in anger is pushing the limits towards abuse. I try to be as calm as I can when spanking, for my own sake as well as for my son’s.

I don’t beleive in spanking. I feel that spanking is merely a method of taking your frustration out on someone smaller. That said, I have a beautiful three year old daughter who, much like yours, throws fits where she is on the floor screaming and kicking. She hits me when she gets frustrated with a no answer to something she wants. I don’t spank. I always feel that if I respond to her vioent behavior by spanking then I am teaching her that it is ok to hit. The methods I use to get my point across are a running battle with me putting her in timeout and her screaming and hitting me in frustration as she leaves time out. The only thing I can say that is positive is the battles get less frequent and less intense as time goes by. I’ve been a stay at home mom for 4 months now and we are just starting to hit our groove. Just an opinion but I remember being hit with a switch growing up. The worse part of the punishment was having to get the switch yourself. Actually being hit didn’t hurt half as much as the anticipation did.
Good luck

Spanking has its limited uses. Jungle Pop makes an excellent distinction between hitting and spanking, and it’s a distinction that kids can certainly understand.

Spanking works when nothing else will get through to my son. When he’s so worked up with himself, and his frustration and independence go head-to-head against what he knows he should do. It gets his attention.

I remember being hit by my mother once. I was in the backseat of our car, and had been mouthing off. She turned around, and smacked me once, across the face - only then did I understand that I’d really crossed a line.

I’ve yet to come close to anything like that with my son. At most, his spankings (less than a handful, so far) have been firm swats on the backside; we’ve hit each other harder while playing.

Spanking is limited because kids adjust to it. If it’s the only means of punishment, they learn nothing other than hitting something is the only way to get what you want. We’ve had much better success with the ‘naughty step’ and timeouts.

I don’t spank.  Time-out’s work if used consistently and judiciously.  The hardest thing in parenting is consistency.  Give a warning, then a few seconds for them to figure it out, (like counting 1-2-3) and then to time out.  One minute for each year of age.  After the time out, get on their level, explain why they are in time out, and get them to say why they are in time out, and say sorry.  It really helps to get on their level.  I don’t know why, but it makes them realize you are serious.  If the fight is over a toy, send the toy to time out.  Reward good behavior, as much as punish bad behavior.  Also for the all out temper-tantrums - ignore them.  Ignore them to the point of if they are on the floor, in your way, step over them.  Tantrums are a way of getting a rise out of you.  They stop when they realize it doesn’t work. 

For what little this is worth, I have found a direct connection between sleep and behavior.  When my nearly 3 year old misses a nap, or wakes up very early, or gets to bed very late, she is not fun to deal with.  Consistent naps and enough sleep are one key to good behavior.

Jungle Pop is right on track.  Spanking and hitting are two entirely different things.  Kids know the difference.  We grossly underestimate a child’s ability to discern between the two with too much psychobabble.  The proper use of spanking (never done in anger) does not teach children that violence or beating is okay anymore than incarcerating guilty felons teaches children that random, involuntary bondage is okay. 

No offense to Michelle, as I know she means well, but I think she’s way off on this topic.  Her daughter already has learned how to be violent presumably without having ever been spanked!  And Michelle is reinforcing this behavior by training her child that it is okay to kick, scream, and hit because there are no serious consequences.  (Sorry, but timeouts hardly qualify as punishment, much less anything that a child takes seriously.  But to be consistent in applying the illogic behind NOT spanking to its natural conclusion --- by using “timeouts” aren’t you just teaching your kids that it’s okay to force others to sit quietly on the sidelines just because you have the power to do so and happen to disagree with their forms of behavioral expression?)

Yes, those “running battles” may become less frequent over time but that’s only because her daughter has decided to move on to other things.  The kicking, screaming, and hitting will simply shift to other forms of defiance and disobedience as the years go by—some outwardly manifest and others inwardly.

Now here’s a more radical and freeing thought about spanking and the “rod.” What if it was only used to “train” a child (and for rare infractions), rather than as a frequent punishment?  That is, the rod and spanking can be used as instructional tools to teach proper behavior and responses IN ADVANCE, rather than just as an after-the-fact punishment.  I don’t have time to explain it all here but I suggest you read the book, “To Train Up A Child” by Michael and Debi Pearl.  (Note, I’m not a big Pearl fan, but the basic concepts presented in the beginning of their book have worked well for our family.)

The premise of the book is that Scripture teaches us to “train up a child” (not “spank up a child") in the way he should go.  Gentle and loving use of the “rod” in proactive training (along with building a loving, nuturing relationship with your children) greatly diminishes the need for after-the-fact punishment of any kind.

By properly using “the rod” to train our children progressively, along with “tying strings” to their hearts, we have greatly increased obedience and reduced the need for spanking as a punishment, all while developing closer relationships with our children.  (Even more amazing, they are not violent and don’t go around randomly hitting people or using violence to solve all their disagreements.) Our 6 kids aren’t perfect but we’ve got 17 years of parenting behind us and have found this to be a great application of Scriptural truth.

Hope this helps.

We do not spank as a conscious decision.  While I recognize that used with care it can be an effective device, it isn’t for us.  Mind you, I’ve been pushed to the limits, but that urge to spank is about controlling anger, which everyone seems to agree is not the proper use of spanking.

I think a lot of people, though, confuse “don’t spank” with “don’t discipline.” We don’t expect our 4-yr.-old to respond solely to reason.  As a result, we teach her that actions have consequences.  You don’t mind your manners, you lose a privilege.  To the extent possible, the consequences should have a logical link to the actions being corrected.  Warnings are given and there’s an explanation of what happened after the fact, incuding a re-emphasizing of “I love you, it’s your actions that are not OK...”

I also realize that child abuse can be non-physical, so just because someone doesn’t spank, they can be hurting their child with excessive guilt, shame, ridicule, etc.  I would argue that in many cases this kind of abuse can be worse.

Finally, although I’m not a Biblical scholar by any means, I don’t really like the “spare the rod” justifcation of spanking, even if it’s been popular for centuries among people smarter than me.  “Thy rod and they staff, they sometimes smack me when I’m asking for it..."(?) Not in my version.  I take it as your typical Biblical “shepherd” metaphor, with all of us as part of God’s “flock,” and our children as memebers of our own smaller “flocks.”

I view the “rod and staff” as symbols of guidance and of keeping the flock on the correct path.  Does a shepherd ever hit his sheep?  Discipline, to me, is more of an overall education; modeling proper behavior and correcting bad behavior.  Our children will look to us to guide them, and we will step in if our little sheep try to wander.  This is why the rod and staff provide “comfort.” They remind us that if we follow God’s leadership, he will look after us.  And if we don’t lead our children properly, they will become spoiled.

But as I said, I’m only a lay person, and I have only 3 years of experience as a parent.

We’ve spanked our kids only when they are dangerously defiant, like wanting to play with the electrical outlet despite our firm warnings to them about it.  Or running into the street.  That one’s a classic situation because toddlers just don’t understand where the sidewalk ends.  We taught them about it, but it didn’t really stick in their brains until they were spanked after stepping off the curb.  I’ve always limited spankings to situations the border on dangerous… Most of the time my booming loud voice is enough to get their attention, but there have been a few times when a swat on the bottom worked a whole lot better.  My son is now 7 and I haven’t spanked him in over two years.  It really was just a toddler thing when my words were not working.

As for other situations, like talking back or not doing chores, time-outs work well, as do taking away things like movie night.

Oh, and as for spanking teaching kids to be violent, both my kids are anything but violent.  My son talks about how “using your words works better than using your fists” —which he learned from me AND in school.  He also understands that sometimes violence is appropriate, like when you have to defend yourself.

I opt for the time-out at first, but if it descends to a “spanking”, what it really is, is a single pop on the backside.  More of an attention getter than an attempt to beat the living crap out of them.

Growing up I received my share of real honest-to-goodness whoopin’s with belts, ping pong paddles, yard sticks, wooden spoons…

Such discipline in our day and age would definitely be considered child abuse, but I am here to tell you that the threat of spanking at our house got your attention fast.

Dad was a big teddy bear, but we knew he meant business.  I think the move to more politically correct forms of punishment have also assisted in the shift of the younger set’s ability to so proper respect, and to be obedient.

I will never advocate physical abuse of a child, but an attention getting bum swat has its merits.

I believe most people’s problems are rooted in the fact that they do things that they know they shouldn’t do, and fail to do things that they should do.  Basically, they are disobedient.  Most of my problems are rooted in my disobedience to my beliefs.

As such, I think that the most important lesson we need to teach our children is the value of obedience.  If we have to use spanking to teach them that, I am not opposed to the concept.

Modeling obedience is much more important than enforcing it.  If we discipline in anger, we are disobedient.  If we fail to disciple, when discipline is necessary, we are disobedient.  If we are disobedient to our beliefs, our children will likely follow our example.

Introducing spanking into our relationship with the children deepens their understanding of obedience, but it also amplifies their understanding of our hypocrisy. If they see us lose our self control, they are not going to believe it is normal to control themselves.  I think we need to have a discipline plan, and stick with it in order to be truly effective.

I spank. I rarely feel proud of it, and I don’t often think it was a very good idea.  But, when out of ideas, you feel it’s the only thing left to try.  It’s a maddening problem.

I look at how our generation turned out - responsible and productive, for the most part, and ask myself why? Because back then our parents were permitted to discipline us. Spanking was not frowned upon. Yes, there was child abuse - and unfortunately, there will likely always be child abuse despite rules and regulations. But that doesn’t mean we should stop disciplining our children. Now I see kids my nephew’s age out there shooting each other, stealing, cursing at their parents, running around with complete defiance of authority. Threaten to spank them? They turn it around and say they will cry child abuse. And we all know how the states look at parental authority. We are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Some states will ban spanking and yet when the child gets in to major legal trouble, it’s the parents that go to jail! Our society is raising children now to play the blame game - it’s not my fault, I have oppositional defiance disorder. It’s not my fault, I’m ADHD and can’t help it. It’s not my fault, my parents didn’t give me enough freedom so I had to do what I could to get out. Society no longer teaches children responsibility for their actions.

I grew up with abuse and swore I would never strike my children. I held to that for a long time. I am strict with my girls, but I can count on one hand how many times I have spanked each child… except my youngest. She is a very strong-willed defiant child, so spanking has become mildly acceptable here. There are limits though - I’ve already told my husband there will never ever be a time where it is acceptable to strike a child in the face. Spanking are to be done in private, not in front of others, making it an embarrassing situation. It’s never done while angry and frustrated so that the line is never stepped on or crossed for abuse. And it is always a last resort punishment.

I truelly believe there is a difference between spanking and child abuse. And questioning yourself is a good way to find that line and keep from crossing it.

I did a paper last year on this very topic.  The American Academy of Pediatrics published a set of criteria for when and how it is OK to spank.  I found it in on of Dr. James Dobson’s books (I think it was “Dare To Discipline"). 

It is still a personal decision.  My sister wasn’t going to spank, and her first child didn’t respond to other interventions.  My brother was going to spank, and his first child was COMPLETELY unfazed by spankings.  Both changed their minds and adapted to find something that worked better than what they had planned.

I think Josh hit the nail on the head in relation to being true to your beliefs.

I for one don’t believe that “spare the rod, spoil the child” is biblical - I think it’s from Dickens. But I do believe that spanking is aceptable...spanking, not beating.

No matter what your stance on spanking, you need to be able to figure out how to move from power over your child to influence. And you need to start this move in preschool. You’ll still have to discipline from a position of power for a few years, but if you don’t begin moving to influence early, you’ll never have any. Then, when your child is bigger than you, power will have no effect and you’ll be left out of their lives.

My wife and I spank when we need to, but that isn’t often and time-outs and loss of privialages work well for our 3 year old. We always get on his level (gaining influence) to talk to him about what is wrong and why the punishment is taking place. After the punishment we ensure that he understands why he was punished - by asking him to tell us.

It’s amazing sometimes to hear why he thinks he was being punished even though we explained it before the punishment. I think this is a step that is often missed and leaves children very confused. From my experience it’s been why the child thinks he was punished, not the spank that has been the most harmful to their self confidence.

After all is said and done, we always end with a hug and the assurance that he is loved.

We’re not spanking parents, we just have “the spank” as a discipline tool when needed. It generally one swat and rarely on the bare bottom. Most of the time it’s not even hard. In fact, once it was a tap, but it was effective.

In certain situations I’ve given him the ability to choose his punishment. And between loss of privilages, time out and a spank. Sometimes having to think through the cause of the punishment and the punishment that should occur is sufficiant punsihment alone.

Ack...I forgot I wanted to echo that the rod was used by the shephard to guide the sheep. It was used as a tool to keep them in line and out of danger, never as something to hurt them with. The rod usually became something they could trust.

When a sheepherd had a problem sheep that constantly ran away the problem was solved by breaking his leg (and NO, I am NOT saying this should be done to a child!). The sheep would then need to be carried everywhere by the sheepherd and would learn to rely on him for everything. Once the leg had mended the sheep would never leave his side again.

In that vein, we should find ways to ensure that we are caring for our children in such a way that when they are ready to be on their own, they are still influenced by our thoughts. We need to show them that we care for them more then ourselves and are willing to do whatever it takes for them to succeed, even if it means our own discomfort.

Time out and “spanking as a last resort” are probably the #1 and #2 contributors of the destruction of children today. Love and caring are what is needed the most in your role as parents, you need to tie their heart strings to you. However, when it comes to training, There must be consistent discipline. And lets face it, how many times does a child touch the stove top? The answer is once. In 2006 America, its not P.C. to say what I’m about to say, but pain creates the best memory. Meaning, when a one year old touches the wood-stove when its hot, she will not do it again. No loving parent “likes” to inflict pain on their child, but try telling that same girl not to touch something that wont hurt her, you can pretty well guaranty she will touch it. And giving her time out doesn’t have the same effect as a short lived sharp pain. Most people hate this analogy, but would you housebreak a dog with timeout, or by counting to three, or by spanking every 3rd time it peed on the floor? If you answered yes, I don’t want to smell your house. Children aren’t dogs but the same applies to training. We use a 1/4” plastic supply tube about 10” long for our rod. Now this isn’t used sparingly, its used every time my children don’t listen, and with consistency, “every time” gets less and less. You see by giving your child to the count of three, you are training them to disobey 2 more times. When you threaten “time out”, you don’t give them much reason to listen because lets get real, it’s no more than making them sit down. And spanking only when necessary, That to me is child abuse, your not teaching them anything except sometimes thy hit me, and sometimes they don’t. And for those who only spank when the kid “crosses the line” They are doing nothing more than taking out their frustrations on their child, and they shouldn’t be parents. If your reading this and you feel bad or sorry for my children, don’t because I have the most happy and loving children you could ever meet, The lessons taught using the switch are what they remember, not the pain. Just think of the danger of not demanding total obedience from your children, And time out doesn’t do it, your child’s life may depend on their immediate obedience, would your child survive?

With all due respect, Big Daddy, I strongly disagree that kids should be spanked every time.  To do so teaches them that only perfection is acceptable, not to mention that it leaves no room for mercy, only justice.  If a child is spanked for every infraction, regardless of severity, it loses it’s power to have influence.  I think as parents, we need to have a number of tools in our toolbox and need to use the brain the Good Lord gave us to determine which to use in any given situation.  We need to ask ourselves “what will best teach the lesson they need to learn.” And teaching should be the goal of parenting, not control. 

Even God (the ultimate parent) doesn’t demand “total obedience” from us, but gives us our free will to choose for ourselves.  Yes, we have to make sure that there are consequences, but as I said before, those consequences need to be aimed at learning, not control. 

Lastly, I think there is inherent danger in using an object to spank with.  I think it’s too hard to measure how much force you’re using, and too easy to go to far.  It will also get you in trouble with Child Protective Services.  (I mentioned Dr. Dobson before, but this is the one area in which I disagree with him.)

I do believe that spanking has it’s place, but with controls and limits, and not as your only option. 

You can read more in Dare to Discipline and The Strong Willed Child

With all due respect, James Dobson doesn’t know Squat about raising, much less training a child. One thing he fails to mention in his books is how his children turned out. If they are not on the road to heaven, which should be all Christian parents goal, then why do we listen to a word he says. I’m not not switching my children because some goofball psychologist says I should, the way my wife and I train our children works. And we have read The Strong Willed Child and its a joke. It is a way to make parents who don’t take the time to train their rotten kids feel better by making them feel their child is “special”. Kind of like ADHD, a made up disorder that covers up a serious lack of discipline.
About spanking with or without a tool, I am a 250 pound man, my arms are strong and my hands are hard, they are not meant to hit my children with. A small switch on the other hand stings for a few seconds and goes away. I can control the force used with that more than with my hand.
Switching sometimes for disobedience, and not another confuses a child, it gives them a false sense of consequences, they will likely continue doing something wrong in hopes that “this time” won’t be a switch. That’s to much of a mind game for a child, and they will soon resent you and the switch. Switching is not our only means of discipline, or training, the most widely used maybe, but not the only. We do it because it works, and our children are very happy and are in no way “afraid” of the switch. When they disobey, if we don’t have one readily availible, the child will get it for us, they understand consequences, they don’t now, and probably never will try to shirk them.
We are trying to raise productive Christians, adults, and citizens, you know, preparing them for the rest of their life, the adult world doesn’t try to find nice, “feel good” ways to tell you that you screwed up, and by raising kids that way, they will not be ready for life, where a screw-up could result in much more than a switch on the backside.
And temper tantrums like those seen in “time-out” homes don’t happen here.

*cough cough* Does anyone smell smoke?  Gettin’ a little flamey and illogical in here. 

Attacking Dobson to make a point about the value and appropriate use of spanking isn’t going to score.  Attacking his kids won’t work either.

I am not attacking him, I am stating that he has no merits. A Phd in Phycobabble is not a qualification for raising children. In the books we have read, he made no reference to the way his turned out, or if any of the techniques he taught worked with them. His children could be wonderful, who knows. But if I’m gonna teach about child-training, I’m going to use what works and what it proven with my children. And a little common sense.  (Matt 7:16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit;
Show me the fruit of his labors, and maybe then I will listen to his teaching.

So, Big Daddy, How did your kids turn out???

Honestly I don’t think we have that much control over how our kids turn out.  We can do our best to let them know Christ, we can set the example for them, and introduce them to discipline, but they get to choose their own path..

The vast majority of us choose the disobedient path at one time or another in our life.  Read Kings and Chronicles sometime.  There where a some very good kings from bad dads, and bad kings from good dads, and there certainly where a lot of bad kings from bad dads. 

I tend to agree with you that consistancy is very important.  I also agree that the discipline should hurt. (Heb 12)

I think the parent being diciplined in administering discipline is far more important than the method of disipline administered.  We have to model for our children doing what is hard even though it is hard, because it is the right thing to do.

If they follow this example, then they will at least understand obedience.  Hopefully they will follow our example, and be obedient.

Josh,
Proverbs 22:6 “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.”
We should believe all of Gods word, or none of it. It is not ours to decide what is accepted and what is not.
There is no reference to what kind of fathers any of those kings were, many Godly men lose their children to the world. It doesn’t mean they were not Godly, just didn’t do all they could for their kids. Any other take on that is speculation, and I have found that to be dangerous where the Bible is concerned.
We are given 18 years to raise our children, If we have no power over where they will go, then what’s the point. But if you choose to send your child to daycare, then school, and sit them in front of the T.V., then your right, we have no control, we’ve left that to everyone else. We owe our kids more than that.

Big Daddy,

It seems to me that you are using the arguements of Job’s friends.  That is the issue I have with your arguement.  Bad stuff happens to good people. 

As far as the Proverbs go, they are the wisdom of Solomon.  They are wise principles and God given wisdom, but they are not a covenent. 

If we behave in accordance with the proverbs, normally we get the results described.  Proverbs 16:7 says “When a man’s ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.” There are pleanty of examples of obedient Godly people being persecuted. Look at the prophets.  Certainly Christ pleased the lord, but his enemies where not at peace with him.  There are many other examples of the principles of the proverbs not working out for certain individuals. 

Anyway, I agree with the thrust of your arguement.  I find your judgemental arguements against Dr. Dobson (Who I also have very mixed feeling for) are undermining your credibility.  Because something bad happens in a family, it doesn’t always mean that anyone did something wrong.  (See Job)

Just my opinion, Take it for what it is worth.

I agree with KC...getting illogical, but then fanaticism is rarely logical. 

->ADHD is over-diagnosed, but it is not made up.  If you had seen the some of the kids I have seen wiht REAL ADHD, you would agree with me. 

->Dr. Dobson DID show the fruits of his teachings, he gave dozens of case histories of families he taught, and how the techniques worked for them.

->His degree isn’t the only qualification he has...he has nearly 40 years of clinical practice (what qualifies you, or any of us?)

->Big Daddy said that spanking or “switching” isn’t his only method of discipline...I believe I said the same, so why such a fuss about it??  If you use other methods and don’t switch every time, how is that any more or less consistent than using a variety of disciplines and using what will best teach in the instance? 

(By the way...if “doesn’t know squat” isn’t an attack, I don’t know what is.)

John and Josh,
My frustration toward Dobson has on occasion led me to display a less than Christian attitude, however I don’t see him as a valid authority on Christian family life. I also don’t understand why people get so defensive when I criticize him. He may be a very good Psychologist, but before you teach others, you should be able to “do” yourself. What “qualifies” us? Nothing, but the same applies to him. We can do only what the true authority teaches us to do, and that’s what I’m trying to do. The way we train our children has worked for us so far and we’ll continue to evaluate ourselves daily. God wants our children to go to Heaven and we plan to get them there. All I can say is the answers are in the scriptures and we as christian fathers must search them daily and continually improve ourselves, without that our kids don’t stand a chance.

Try http://www.nogreaterjoy.org for bible based teaching on child training and marriage. I tend to believe them because they have 5 children that “did not depart from it”, those are the kind of fruits I mean.

I read some of the Pearl’s stuff, and I was impressed by it. 

I think there is a risk in putting too much emphasis on “the rod” as the reason for their success.  They are very disciplined people, a charactaristic that is going to be reflected in their children.  They are also very protective.  They discourage sending your kids to public, or even Christian schools because of the corrupting influences that children encounter in that environment.  They absolutely do not tolorate television.

My contention is that this disciplined approach is what yeilds good results.  I don’t have a problem with “the rod”, but putting too much emphasis on that facet of their teaching without applying discipline in the rest of the areas will not yeild the results that they espouse in the long term.

Most Americans are pretty undisciplined.  Improving our own model of discipline is the best thing that we can do for our kids.  Imposing “the rod” on kids that are learning disobedience from our model will lose it’s effectiveness once they are able to see our hypocracy.  Once they are out of our household, they will not respect all that we taught them.

Josh,
I don’t know if we have answered the original question, but I’ll bet Ken got more than he bargained for with his question.
We also home school and do not use the T.V. in our home and to our surprise, we are much better off without it. discussing home schooling though should be left for another time, I’m sure it will be an interesting conversation.

click on my name and you can see my family in action and some of the things me and my son do together. see “shooting with the boy”

Dear Ken,

I am a freelance writer working on an article on spanking as a discipline tool for a national parenting magazine. I saw your post here, and I wanted to ask if I might interview you for the article. We’d like to get views from parents (moms and dads) from both sides of the issue.

If you’re interested, please let me know. nlorenzi (at) earthlink (dot) net.

Best Regards,
Natalie

I am shocked and awed by this discussion - that there are actually parents in the 21st Century who defend spanking, and actually use it.  Of course when you use scripture to defend your actions, the discussion ends there.  I don’t believe there are any experts in the field of raising children who would condone spanking - but of course these experts have been reduced to “psychobabblers” in one of these posts.  As in any field there have been advancements in understanding what children’s brains are able to comprehend and integrate.  So using scriptures as a blueprint for raising children sounds as crazy to me as using scriptures to build a sky-scraper. 
Let’s be clear, if you spank your children it is because you do not have the patience or expertise to deal with what is really happening, with understanding what is really going on with your child.  Hearing someone say “I feel bad about this buddy” makes me sick.  Is it ok to slug someone in the face and say you feel sorry about it?  Why not?  If you spank your child, it is not a parenting technique, it is a cry for help.

if you spank your children it is because you do not have the patience or expertise…

Hey bud, not all parents are born with loads of patience or expertise, but they aren’t necessarily shooting to the top of the Worst Parents Ever list if they do spank.

understanding what is really going on with your child…

If this were easy to do, surely we’d all be doing it, no?  Congratulations if you’ve figured it out—you’ll be a rich man tomorrow if you just publish a few books about it.

I agree with Phil, spanking have to be given when it is a dangerous situation that your child is in and not listening. In those situations the punishment must make an impression. My toddler get spanked only in situations that could be dangerous for him. Mine nine year old has not been spanked in two years. I use different discipline strategies for him. Like taking his Nintendo DS away or not letting him watch his favorite show. That is more affective for him. My toddler on the other hand is a lot more strong willed. Spanking is NOT abuse if it is used for the right situation. I was spanked as a child and I do not feel that I was abused in anyway. I hope I never have to deal with the kids that will become adults who are not given the proper discipline. I have a feeling they will be very selfish adults.